standard SL 47 – Identifying Dating Patterns with Ken Page

 

Psychotherapist and columnist Ken Page talks with Jake Swank about dating patterns people make and better ways for making a lasting loving relationship.

 

Key Takeaways
01:49 – Making fatal mistakes when thinking dating is a numbers game.
06:29 – Building a good and real profile that gets people interested.
10:02 – Attraction of deprivation: how everybody has a pattern in finding people that can almost love and accept us.
12:21 – Attraction of inspiration: meeting people that inspire you and make you feel connected.
13:35 – Wave of distancing: feeling that you no longer connect with someone that could be the love of your life.
14:59 – Dating buddy: having one can really help you grow in finding that person you want to be and making it with for the rest of your life.

 

Mentioned in this episode
Deeper Dating: How to Drop the Games of Seduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy by Ken Page
http://www.deeperdating.com/index.html

 

Tweetables
Dating is not a numbers game.  When you start thinking that, you start making some relationship mistakes.
When you’re looking for love, the search deserves a little bit of respect.
People don’t want a witty profile, instead they want to know who the person is.  Most people want warmth.

 

 

Transcript

Jake Swank:
It’s my pleasure to welcome Ken Page to the show. He is a professional psychotherapist columnist for Psychology Today and the Huffington Post, and author of the new best seller Deeper Dating: How to Drop the Games of Seduction and Discover the Power of Intimacy. Ken welcome, how are you?

Ken Page:
I’m well and very glad to be here, thank you.

Jake:
Where are you located?

Ken:
I’m in New York.

Jake:
Good stuff. So, there’s a lot of talk in the past ten years about the whole seduction community. I can’t believe this whole community actually has a brand name for itself, right? [Laughs] It’s kind of funny. But it’s sort of promotes the numbers approach to dating or online dating. Is this a good ideal or does it actually steer people away from finding love?

Ken:
I would say, definitely the latter. I can’t call it a good ideal, what I can call a good ideal, is the fact that you can harness vast amounts of possibilities through online dating. What is not a good ideal, is getting lost in a numbers game, because this is not a numbers game, and in-fact playing it as a numbers game is going to have people make a number of mistakes that are really kind of fatal mistakes if what they’re looking for is a real relationship.

Jake:
So, can you talk about the fatal mistakes that the numbers game leads to? What are some of those mistakes?

Ken:
Some of the mistakes, and of course, I discuss this in my book: Deeper Dating, in some real detail. Some of the fatal mistakes are, when you start playing a bigger numbers game, you’re going to have a tendency to move quickly past people who might hold real potential. The problem with online dating is that, that element of chemistry is missing, so we evaluate somebody based on what very simple things, how hot do they look, how attractive do they look, and how much do their specifics match up with what we’re looking for. But there is a chemistry that happens through connection that is all important. So, if we’re constantly thinking, well, for example, this person is a seven, why don’t I just keep looking for a nine or ten? There’s a million of them out there, I’ll just go for the higher numbers, there’s an endless supply. When we do that, we’re going miss out on some very important positive people.

In some the dating apps, you just scrolling one direction to reject someone and scrolling another direction to accept them, ad we scroll so quickly that we lose people as we do it. Because there’s a process of getting to know someone and in that process intimacy begins to happen. We miss that if we’re playing a really big numbers game. Also another thing that happen with a really big numbers game is that because there’s always a thought that there might be someone hotter, someone more interesting, etc, etc, we move too quickly through the process. We don’t take the time to make a phone call and get to know the person, to then make a date and have a cup of coffee with this person and get to know them. So, we really have to watch out for the way online dating steer us. The other pieces is, that in a lot of dating apps, there’s nothing that you get except a picture and maybe a couple of words.

Jake:
Oh my god, I mean you look at the apps like Tinder that is absurd, it’s just nothing. It’s got to be most inefficient dating app ever. I do not why people love it, I do not know why its so successful. It must be a refection of the incredibly shallow culture in which we live. I just can’t figure it out.

Ken:
I think that’s true, but I think also it’s sculpt behavior. It teaches us that the way to date is to go fast through as many numbers as you can to look for the hottest person you can and to try to get them.

Jake:
Oddly that’s kind of one of my complaints about Tinder in a way, is that you can’t sort like by height or interests or race or anything! [Laughs] It’s just so dumb! It’s like you have this massive people coming at you and you get location and gender that’s it, [Laughs] It’s crazy. And that picture but here’s one of the things I’ve notice, I mean I’ve never seen guys on Tinder, that’s not on my profile, but I see girls on Tinder and it’s like there’s two or three of them in every picture! You don’t even know which one it is! It’s crazy.

Ken:
It is crazy and it’s an exact example of what you’re talking about, making numbers king instead of making connections king. And it’s connection that builds everything.

Jake:
Right but wouldn’t it be fair to say that if you don’t go through the numbers, you’re not going to increase your odds of connection. What I used to say, when I used to train real estate sales people years ago. I used to always say, “Look it is a numbers game, which every sales trainer will tell you but the difference is it’s also people business” and isn’t there a balance between those two?

Ken:
There is, however I would say culturally online world steers us toward, for example, you might want to go through the great classics, you decide that’s something that’s gonna really give you a lot of breath of knowledgeable insight. But if all you read is thumbnail paragraph on each classic, you may get through them all in one day but what are you really have? The magic of the books is going to be gone, just like the magic of the connections will be gone.

Jake:
Okay. Let’s talk about when it comes to online dating, we don’t have to focus on the online component, but how can people write better profiles that attract healthy lasting relationships?

Ken:
A few points here and there’s a few different points, there’s a few pieces here. There is: the profiles are right, the way you look at profiles, how you respond after you look the profile and then all important first date. Want to talk about each one of those really briefly. When you write a profile, I would give it as a general piece of advice. Don’t worry so much about being witty, people focus so much on being witty, and what’s more important is warmth. You want people to get a feeling of who you really are, they don’t want a cold witty profile, they want a sense of who the person is, and the same thing with your picture, absolutely look for a picture that you feel shows you realistically but also in a good light, but do more than that, look for some pictures, where when you look at your face in those pictures, you say, “That really captures my spirit, that’s who I’m really am” don’t just go for the hot attractive pictures, go for the pictures that look good but also really show who you are inside, the kind of pictures where your friends would go, “Yeah, that really captures who you are” that’s a picture piece, that’s a piece on the profile.

Take the time to write a well thought out profile, it doesn’t have to be that long but it’s worth taking the time to really craft a good depiction of who you are, and once again, don’t worry too much about being witty. Watch out for too many I don’t wants, I don’t want this, I don’t want that, because that can turn people off. You will have ample time to do your screening, but stick with the things that you do want, the things you are looking for. When you look at people’s profiles, if you imagine in the attraction spectrum, let’s say, zero through ten and ten are the people that make you completely weak knee and zero are the people you’re not attract to at all. Don’t just look for the nines and the tens, look for the fives, the fours, the sixes, the sevens, the people with whom you think there might be some spark. When you read the profile and see if it seems like they’re connections and then do the work of connecting with that person, have a phone call before the coffee date. Get to know who the person is, that phone call is the most powerful screening mechanism that you have, take the time to do it.

Jake:
We live in a world where, I can’t believe how people just don’t use the phone anymore. How can you have a relationship via text? And listen I am not old guy saying that, I just think text is, it has a small purpose in our life. People just massively overuse it.

Ken:
I think that’s so true and I think your speaking about a trend toward making things quick and some what dehumanize and in some arenas it’s okay, but when you’re looking for love, the search for a real lasting relationship is, one of the couple most important mission of our entire adult lives, it deserves a little bit of respect.

Jake:
Yeah, no question about it. Okay, what else do you want people to know? And I don’t wanna really just do the online thing only, because that’s not what you’re about. So, let me give you the opportunity to just talk about what every area you think people should know more about.

Ken:
Oh that’s great and I appreciate it. I guess, what I want to say, is what I think is the single most important insight for everybody who’s really seeking lasting love and that insight is this, know the difference between what I call your attractions of inspiration and your attractions deprivation. What do I mean by that? All of us can be very attracted to people who almost accept us and almost love us and almost treat right, not quite but almost. Because we get into this passionate process of trying to convince them to really love us and people lose years, decades, lots of time and lots energy on these, what I call an attractions of deprivation. We need to know our typical attractions of deprivation, cause usually everybody has a pattern and what’s really funny is, you’re best friends could probably tell you in a New York minute, what your patterns are of choosing the wrong people; watch out for those people. Now there’s another way we can be attracted and it’s a whole different circuitry.

Jake:
It’s the opposites. So, you’re saying the first one, just let’s be clear on that before you lead again. It’s the deprivation attraction? That’s kind an attraction switch, right? Out of deprivation vs.–

Ken:
That’s right.

Jake:
–And that’s the negative side. Does that speak to the rebound relationship? Does it speak to the general, I’m lonely type of concept where I just gotta go find someone, anybody who will accept me type of thing? Is that what you’re referring to, when you say deprivation?

Ken:
Oh you know it could be that but I think more specifically it’s about, is this a person who is available, is this a person who appreciate you for who you are? And is this a person who’s consistent and solid and decent and kind? And if the answer is, “Well, some of the time” or “Not really but I really feel like I can get them to be” that’s an attraction of deprivation. And all of us have been in that situation. These are some of the most exciting and intense attractions there are.

Jake:
Alright. Glad you clarified that, go on the other circuitry.

Ken:
I’m glad that you did. Yeah! The other one, is an attraction of inspiration. What’s an attraction of inspiration? That’s when you meet somebody and you feel inspired by couple things, by who they are in the world and by how they treat you and by the quality of your connection. When that happens you have found gold. Those are the relationship to pursue. And I’ve seen this over and over again, when people decide to wean themselves off of the kind of hamster wheel of attractions of deprivation and only choose attraction of inspiration. People who inspire you by who they are in the world and by how they are with you and by how the two of you are together, that’s when their beginning lives begin to completely change. So, that’s if there’s was one point I wanna to share that would be it, and I guess, I have a couple other important things that nobody get taught.

Jake:
Yeah! Absolutely! Go for it. First give your website though Ken.

Ken:
Oh Yes! Thank you so much. It’s deeperdating.com

Jake:
deeperdating.com. Okay go ahead with those couple of others things as we wrap up.

Ken:
Yes, sure. And there are also a number free bonuses available on that website if you go to deeperdating.com, join my mailing list. But okay! Here’s another one, it’s what I call the wave of distancing and I would say, it’s the single greatest saboteur of new love that exists in the world and here’s what it is, it’s when you meet someone and you find them decent and kind and interested in you and all of a sudden your interest plummets. You want to get away, you want to go back to the hunt and you find their laugh really annoying and you feel like, “Well, my attraction is disappear” Now most people leave at that point but the wave is actually a sign that you might have just met someone who’s really good for you and you could have a future with and you know that and because we get afraid and insecure we start to push them away. The secret of the wave if you’re someone who knows what I’m talking about and has experience that, is that it’s a wave. I promise you that if you stick around, don’t force yourself to get closer than you’re really to get, but don’t run and if you stick around the wave is gonna pass and your affection is gonna come back. Don’t flee so quickly.

Jake:
What are dating buddies? I think you talk about that, right?

Ken:
Oh yes, I do. If you would like to, I would say probably the single biggest thing that your listeners could do to literally change their dating life to change their romantic future is to work with, what I call a dating buddy. What’s a dating buddy? A dating buddy is somebody who has your best interest at heart, has integrity, is consistent and is reliable, and who is also not only looking for love but looking to grow in the way that they find love. Because what I’ve discover is the way we look for love offend determines the love we find. How would this not be area where we need to grow? But we’re not taught how to grow. So, here’s what you do, you get a dating buddy and you meet with this person regularly, and in my book Deeper Dating I actually in everyone of the lessons because there’s twelve steps in this journey for everyone of those, there are exercises that you can do. Now I suggest with your dating buddy but you can also kind of figure them out yourselves.

You talk every week or every two weeks and you share your snuggles, your learning, who you’re dating, who you’re interested in, and you get all the kind of support that a dating buddy would give, in another words, telling you when you’re acting an old pattern, encouraging you to go after the person you wanna after, even though you’re kind of afraid and shy about it, and then helping you dissect how to handle the millions sticky situations that come up in your dating life. And when people get a dating buddy they just make better choices and when they make better choices they move more directly to finding the love that they want.

Jake:
Yeah, good stuff. Ken Page great advice and great tips and some new ideals on a very old, old process, [Laughs] that’s been going on forever. And we appreciate you sharing those with us today and listeners should head over to your website, give that out one more time.

Ken:
Great, that’s deeperdating.com

Jake:
Ken Page thanks for joining us.

Ken:
Thank you so much.

Outro:
This show is produce by the Hartman Media company, all right reserved. For publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.hartmanmedia.com or email media@hartmanmedia.com. This show is for entertainment purposes only, and should not be considered personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate professional, if you require individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own and the host is acting on behalf of the Hartman Media company company, exclusively.

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